IVY TV Live Chat with John Christianson 5-23-19

We were thrilled to host our very first members-only IVY TV Live Video Chat on how to learn How to Maximize Your Return on Life and Money. Moderated by IVY CEO Beri Meric, our conversation was led by John Christianson, the brilliant founder and CEO of Highland Private Wealth Management who has 25 years of experience working with some of the world’s leading wealth creators — including executives from Facebook, Microsoft, Nike, and more.

Drawing from Christianson’s book, The Wealth Creators Playbook, in this invaluable online conversation we think deeply about the “life portfolio”, our relationship to money, how we each define success, and how we should make, invest, and spend our money in the broader context of our lives. By becoming wiser financial decision-makers, we’ll be able to make healthier decisions in pursuit of not just wealth, but happiness.


B. Meric: 00:00 Thank you so much for being here today, John, and all the IVY member who tuned for our very first IVY TV Live Chat. What we’re going to try to do today is to not just have a very interesting and insightful conversation, but also get some super tangible takeaways that we can implement in our lives almost immediately after the call. So, I’m really excited for that.

B. Meric: 00:16 For those of you who are new to IVY, we host events every week in all of our chapters, and these kinds of conversations are a great way to not just learn new things, but connect with new members.

B. Meric: 00:29 So, the first part of this conversation is going to be a Q&A between John and I, and then if anybody has any questions, I highly recommend that you type them in the Q&A box. That’s at the bottom of this Zoom conference.

B. Meric: 00:43 And then, in the second part of the conversation, I’m going to be calling on people who wanted to ask a question to turn on their video and microphone, and go ahead and ask the question.

B. Meric: 00:52 So, our theme today is, how to maximize your return on life and money, obviously a very important topic and I want John … If you’d like to kick us off, why is this so important? Why did you choose to focus on such a subject and write The Wealth Creator’s Playbook?


J. Christianson: 01:13 Well, a lot of this started in my own life, Beri, and thanks for having me. By the way, I did want to say, I’ve met some of your members in both Miami, and in Chicago, and what a great group of people. So, if any of those people are out there, you know … Hi. I really enjoyed getting to know some of the people in your organization. So phenomenal.

J. Christianson: 01:32 But, a lot of this was grounded in my experience in my own life, of trying to integrate and go down the path of the traditional definition of success, if you will, this idea that I’ve got to check certain boxes to find success in my life. And what I found was, that I wasn’t, and there was an incongruence that was going on, and I didn’t really exactly know what that was. I just knew it was not the way I wanted to live my life.

J. Christianson: 02:00 At the same time, I was working with highly-successful wealth creators who were at some level, experiencing the same thing, that there had to be more than just money as the definition of success. So, if that wasn’t it, what was it?

J. Christianson: 02:16 And I went on this journey that’s now been about a 20-year journey to sort that out. What I concluded was that there was a much more holistic definition of success that included other parts of my life, and it’s what I now refer to as living fully.

J. Christianson: 02:32 As I started to talk to the clients about that, and share that, it was as if there was this new language, this new framework. There was a way for people to tangibly hang on to this idea of, “I want to be successful.” And so did I. I wanted to be successful financially, but I also wanted these other elements in my life, and so clients started to experience more joy, more fulfillment, more contentment.

J. Christianson: 02:55 And so, the idea behind the book was, “Well, I’m just going to write a book that not only puts my story, and my experience, but shares what these other wealth creators went through, with the idea being that you or anyone else could go through this process and define that for themselves. So, that was the idea behind the book.

B. Meric: 03:14 Awesome. So you talk about living fully, and you have this concept in the book about the life portfolio. Can you tell us a little bit about what that says for most people when they think about their portfolio? They’re thinking stocks, bonds, maybe some startups. How do you define this broader life portfolio?

J. Christianson: 03:34 Sure. I’m an investment guy, so all the things that I look at tend to be through this lens of investing and so as I was thinking about an easier way for people to think about, “How would I define living fully?” And even in my own life, I said, “Well, if my life was a portfolio full of stocks, what would the stocks be?”

J. Christianson: 03:55 The first stock was the money stock, and that was an important one. It was important to me. It wasn’t one that I didn’t want to think about. I wanted to have money. That gave me the freedoms and the choices in the things that I wanted to do in my life.

J. Christianson: 04:07 But then I also had my work stock, and that’s where I would be engaged and passionate about something that I cared about and could bring my gifting and my talents and my skills, and there might be something at stake. That’s the way work is, you know. You can win or lose in that environment, so that’s engaging.

J. Christianson: 04:24 Then I had my relationship stocks, not only my family, but my friends, as well as the community, and my relationship to the world.

J. Christianson: 04:31 Then there was the health stock for me. Important. We could have all this success financially, but then if we don’t have our emotional and our physical health, what’s the point? So, that was important to me.

J. Christianson: 04:44 And then, the other one was our play stock, which is one as I will say, Type A-type people, we forget what play looks like, and just the pure enjoyment of life. That would include travel and hobbies and things that I was interested in.

J. Christianson: 04:59 Then my mind stock, just being continually curious, and growing and developing as a person, and evolving, and personal growth and development is a big part of my life. I believe that the organization that I started would only grow as fast as I was growing. So, that was part of me wanting to evolve, too, as a person.

J. Christianson: 05:18 And then, lastly, my purpose stock, which was my heart, you know? What am I connected to that’s bigger than me, that has real connection and meaning and purpose in my life.

J. Christianson: 05:29 And so, those were the elements of the portfolio, and in the same way as you would an investment portfolio, for you, anybody who’s listening, that portfolio needs to have a goal and objective. What’s the point of that portfolio? What is it trying to accomplish?

J. Christianson: 05:45 The other thing you’d think about if you were investing that portfolio would be, what’s the diversification look like? So, it might be, “Hey. I’ve got one or two of these stocks that are a little concentrated, spending a little too much time on those, and I’ve got a couple that are atrophying, and I really want to spend some energy on figuring out, “What is the right diversification for me?”

J. Christianson: 06:05 And then lastly, the return. I think sometimes what I’ve found is that wealth creators and people who are interested in creating a life that’s meaningful to them, are accepting what I would say is CD returns. There isn’t a person who doesn’t come into my office, who doesn’t want stock market returns for a CD risk. But the reality of it is that we’ve only got one life to live, and I believe we do, and I want to maximize that return on my money and my life, to experience the most joy and fulfillment that I can.

J. Christianson: 06:40 So, that’s the essence of this life portfolio, and kind of how that works.

B. Meric: 06:45 Fascinating. So, it’s essentially a mix of money, work, relationships, health, play, mind, purpose? Those are the different elements of the portfolio?

J. Christianson: 06:54 Yep.

B. Meric: 06:55 You’re looking at it just like an investor would. You’re thinking, “Okay. What am I trying to achieve? What does that diversification look like?” And then, “How do I get these returns?”

B. Meric: 07:04 And just like most investors, a lot of us have different priorities, right, different weightings that we want to put on these different things. And I think a lot of that is often defined by people’s relationship to money, what you call, Money EQ.

B. Meric: 07:20 So, could you also help introduce that topic a little bit, as well? Why is our relationship to money so important to how we think about this portfolio overall?

J. Christianson: 07:31 Well, I think how we spend, save, and share our money … Our money isn’t who we are, but how we do those things, spend, share, and save the money, says a lot about who we are. I think it also impacts us at an emotional level. It impacts us relationally, for sure. It has implications in a lot of areas of our life, and we have to interface with it.

J. Christianson: 07:55 Really, what I found was that there were reactions that clients were experiencing, emotional reactions to money, that weren’t grounded in anything that made sense to me, and it was leading to these downstream decisions that were impacting them, sometimes negatively. So, if you back up the truck a little bit, and just say, “The way we emote to money, the way we react to money, how it impacts us, has a direct correlation to the decisions we make,” and those decisions can be positive or negative for us in our life. And not only us, but the people around us, because we’ve got people that are influenced by those decisions.

J. Christianson: 08:36 So, my idea was, if I could help people reorient, or think differently, or maybe just think consciously, “I have a reaction to money. I have a relationship to money that’s grounded in a number of things,” and be aware of that, that I could help them change those downstream decisions.

J. Christianson: 08:54 To give you an example, I had a client who had significant wealth, and I was experiencing them in a place of scarcity, where they were saying, “I have to have more. I need to have more.” And so, the downstream implication of that was, “That doesn’t make sense. The decisions you are making are grounded in something that have nothing to do with any amount of financial planning I could do for you to prove it otherwise.”

J. Christianson: 09:18 So, that’s where it started.

B. Meric: 09:22 Got it. So, to bring these three concepts together, on the one hand, your concept of a life portfolio, it’s almost scientific, right? You’ve got all these different factors, you balance them, and you’re very goal oriented.

B. Meric: 09:34 Now, we have this Money EQ, this relationship to money, which is actually a bit more like, qualitative, psychological. It has a lot to do with how we were brought up, what we experienced growing up, and the highs and lows that we all have in our lives.

B. Meric: 09:48 So, with both of those concepts in mind, if you were to guide us in a very practical and pragmatic sense, for somebody starting to think about their life portfolio … I mean, all of us think about these things all the time, so it’s not totally new to anyone. But if it was a first-time client meeting and you really wanted us to take practical steps, what are the steps one would follow to start really thinking in a healthy way about their life portfolio and their relationship to money?

J. Christianson: 10:20 That was the reason I created this thing called, Investing Your Life, this framework, if in fact, you believe me so far that there’s this portfolio, and I’ve got to go invest it. How would you go do that? What I talk about in the book is, again, using investment language, is this same idea of, there’s four steps to investing your life.

J. Christianson: 10:40 The first step would be taking stock. Where am I? What’s going on that’s unique in my life right now? What are the challenges? What are the opportunities? Maybe do a little bit of an audit. In the book I actually have a living fully audit. I’m a recovering CPA, so I can do that kind of stuff, but there’s this idea of, “Where am I? What’s going on in my life?” It reminds me of … If I could segue for a second, it reminds me of the story of this client I was talking to a couple of years ago, and we were sitting there talking about his money and his life. He said, “John, you know, the interesting thing is, when I think about my money and my career, if I was to give those a grade, I would probably give my money a grade of A-minus,” which I thought was kind of funny.

J. Christianson: 11:22 When you think about Type-A people that are successful and doing things well, we can’t give ourselves an A or an A-plus. We’ve got to give ourselves an A-minus with room for improvement. But the more interesting thing was, “If I was to grade my life, I’d give it a C-plus,” because see, there’s this incongruence between where he was and what he was experiencing from life, and what he thought he wanted to experience.

J. Christianson: 11:42 So, there’s this idea of, if I was to ask people listening right now, “What grade would you give your life, and is it the grade that you want?” And if it’s not the grade you want, then that’s important to know, because step two coming out of that would be, “Well, then you’d better understand what your money supply is.” That’s step two of the process.

J. Christianson: 12:06 Because it’s not as if this is a free ride. We can just go do whatever willy-nilly we want. We have to figure out, “What do we have from a financial perspective,” and there’s two parts to that. One is quantitative. Part of that is literally doing the math, running the numbers. How much does it cost to live your life, to develop for yourself, “What is the solution set that’s available to me? It may not be anything I can possibly do in the world.” I’m not suggesting that that’s on the table. For me, it wasn’t that I wanted anything possible. I just didn’t want anybody to tell me I couldn’t do something.

J. Christianson: 12:41 And so, by running the numbers quantitatively, you could start to say, “What does financial independence look like for me? What choices does that give me in my life?” That could be using a wealth manager, financial advisor, online tools … There’s lots of free tools that allow you to do that. Because if you don’t do that, then you’re left in this place of anxiety, which is a place where you’re thinking theoretically about chasing kind of, “I’ve got to go up the next rung up the ladder to get financial success, because that’s going to give me the contentment I need,” instead of just running the numbers and making that real. So, that’s the first part of it.

J. Christianson: 13:17 The second part of it is a little bit about what we talked about just a minute ago in the Money EQ. What is your relationship to money? How is that impacting your life? The things we didn’t talk about were the questions that I would get into, and did, with some of your folks down in Miami in the master class, which is, “What is your history with money? What were the things that your parents taught you, or didn’t teach you, about money when you were growing up? And what was the role of money in your home?”

J. Christianson: 13:44 That’s a fascinating conversation, and when we got into that, and you know, I could pose that to you as well, but for me personally, I grew up in a home where my parents were frugal. Everything was second-hand, and that left me with the sense that we just didn’t have quite enough money. And so, as I got older, I didn’t want to be denied some of those things. And so, I took into adult life this conflict, and the conflict was, “I want to provide and give myself some of the things that I maybe wasn’t able to get,” and yet I had this frugal upbringing, and that created problems for me. So, as I’m chasing houses and cars and clothes, and whatever I thought would bring satisfaction, I had these two things working against themselves, and just recognizing that’s my story.

J. Christianson: 14:32 And the interesting thing is, that story’s totally different than my wife’s story. We look back now, I look back on the decisions we’ve made that we maybe would’ve made differently had we, just simple, gone on a money date. Go on a money date with the idea that we’re just going to talk about how were we raised financially. What are those truths that we bring into our adult life that are grounded completely in the way we were brought up? And they may or may not be serving us anymore. And they’re more than likely not the same ones that your spouse or partner have, and were raised with. The interesting part of that is, by just communicating those things, that can be incredibly helpful. So, there’s a great takeaway. Go on a money date and talk about that. So, that’s step two in the process.

J. Christianson: 15:23 With me so far?

B. Meric: 15:25 Absolutely.

J. Christianson: 15:26 Okay. So step three is research. The research step says, like you would if you were investing in a portfolio, “What are our choices?” And the choices, when you talk about life is, “Where is meaning and purpose reside for me? What are the things that I’m uniquely qualified to do and that bring me the most joy?”

J. Christianson: 15:47 And for me, that was a journey. We’re not taught as individuals very often, to go inward, and where meaning and purpose reside are inside of us, in places that takes time to develop. We all know people that are kind of doing what they were called to do, and that’s great, but I wasn’t one of those people. And I think a lot of people aren’t. It takes a while to get those things out, and journaling, and I used coaches and counselors, and any number of workshops to kind of work that through, but effectively answering three questions.

J. Christianson: 16:20 The three questions were, “Who am I? Why am I here? And what’s my unique contribution to the world?” And the intersection of those three questions lead you to a place of clarity about where meaning and purpose reside in your life, and there may be multiple places that meaning and purpose reside.

J. Christianson: 16:42 Ultimately, for me, what I was intrigued with, was the idea of calling. Where am I called to be? The interesting thing about calling is that calling leaves clues. The kinds of things for me that calling left clues for, and I think for other people in their lives, are, “Where do I see energy? Where do I feel energy, anabolic energy that’s life-giving, that makes me smile like you’re smiling right now, that you know, that makes me excited to do something. Where do I have experience? What kind of roles have I been in in my life, where I have experience and skills and capabilities?” That’s a clue.

J. Christianson: 17:18 “Where do I have gifting, natural gifting?” For me, I realized I got gifting for listening and intuiting what people are saying to me. “Where is the risk?” Isn’t it interesting that where there is risk, a lot of times there are places where calling is, because there’s an opportunity to step into something that’s unsure, that maybe take a little faith, and but there’s something that draws us to that.

J. Christianson: 17:44 As another side note, I facilitate a group of guys that are in a change program, and they’re trying to change their lives. One of the things I talk to them about is, every week we have to … What’s one thing you’ll do to move towards something you want to change? Well, that has to be something that’s risky. It’s interesting, when you ask people about that, “What’s one thing you want to do this week that would move you toward that, that’s risky?” And they’ll go, “Oh, I’ll do that,” and I go, “Well, does that feel risky?” “Well, no. Not really.” “Well, how about that?” “Oh, no. There’s no way. I don’t want to do that.” “Okay. Well, then do that,” because it’s usually that thing that you kind of are holding up on that is one of the things that’ll lead you closer to these places of calling.

J. Christianson: 18:22 The other thing is passion. So, where are you passionate? What things just bring you passion, and are passion for you in your life?

J. Christianson: 18:28 And finally, your values. Values are these incredible north stars. Another takeaway for the group that we could talk about, is just this idea of, “How do you figure out your values?” I went through that in a master class down in Miami, but there’s lots of worksheets. If somebody sends me an email, I’ll be happy to send them one. There’s one in the book. That’s not the secret sauce. It’s a worksheet of words.

J. Christianson: 18:52 But what you have to do is, resonate to, “What are the values that most impact my life, and that are non-negotiables in my life?” And they’re ones that are evidence-based. So, Beri, I don’t want words of, “If generosity … Is it a value of mine?” but there’s not evidence of it in my life, then it’s just aspirational. That doesn’t mean it’s bad. It’s just not evidenced in my life.

J. Christianson: 19:11 So, I want my top five values. So, if listeners haven’t done that, go do that. Then ask your spouse to do the same thing. And once your spouse does that, then come together … or your partner … and say, “What are our aligned values?” Much like our money history, those are not the same. We’re different people. There might be some crossover. There might be some places where we have consistency, but what are the things that we are aligned around as a couple, and how is that going to drive our life?

J. Christianson: 19:40 And then, the followup step to that is, write those down and put them up somewhere where you can see them. What I told the groups that I’ve been talking to in your organization is that the extra credit point is, to do something fun with them. My wife and I painted a picture. That’s totally extra credit. You get an A-plus for that. But the interesting part is, we hung that in our bedroom, and so every time I walk in the bedroom, I’m reminded of what it is that we care most about. And the interesting thing is, our money and our lives move almost effortlessly towards values. It simplifies decision-making. And so, if you don’t know what those are, or there kind of just out there in the ether, make them concrete, write them down, put them someplace.

J. Christianson: 20:25 So, all those are pieces. The last thing I would say on the research space, if all that doesn’t work for you, the question that I would ask yourself is, what would I do if I knew I wouldn’t fail? It’s interesting when you take away constraints. If I take away the constraint of time, I take away the constraint of money, I take away the constraint of some situation that’s impacting you, and go, “What would you do if all those were gone?” “Oh, I’d do that for sure.”

J. Christianson: 20:55 And when I’m talking to someone, I can almost feel … When they’re over the top of a place of calling and meaning and purpose, I can almost feel it resonating out of their body. Their eyes light up, they grin like you do, and you can just feel it. And I think that’s powerful. That’s what we all want to experience. So, those are a bunch of different ways you can kind of get at that research part of the invest in your life.

J. Christianson: 21:19 And then the last piece is price targets. When I was a stockbroker back in the mid-80s, I was in the smile-and-dial era, so for a lot of people that are listening in, they’re going, “Huh?” But, you know, we’d have to cold call, and try and get somebody to buy a stock. Well, when you call them up and go, “Hey. I want you to buy 100 shares of GE,” or whatever the stock was, you couldn’t just say that. You had to say where it was going. Where’s this thing going? Well, it’s going from whatever, 10 to 25.

J. Christianson: 21:49 Because the reality of it is, if you don’t know where you’re going, any road will get you there. And so, there’s something interesting about pinpointing kind of what we’re trying to do and why, and where we’re trying to go. I actually have, and it kind of gets us into this idea of success and definition of success, but I’ll stop there for a second and just see if that covers a lot of what you want and I can take a drink of water for a second.

B. Meric: 22:13 Absolutely. I mean, this is absolutely fascinating, the holistic approach you’ve taken with this. One thing I want to ask, while it’s fresh. I think, you know, people are always fascinated about archetypes, like, are there actually certain groups of people, both to see if they fit into one of those archetypes when it comes to priorities, and so forth, and approach to money, and also just to better understand the people around them, and get along with them.

B. Meric: 22:42 So, have you found, you know, based on all the different clients you have, are there like, a handful of different general archetypes of people and how they deal with money? Or would you say each person is unique, based on their experience.

J. Christianson: 22:56 Well, I think that was part of the Money EQ. If I back up on that a second, I created an assessment tool that anybody can to take, moneyeq.com, or it’s at my website. It’s free. The idea behind that was just to say, “What’s our natural wiring as it relates to money?”

J. Christianson: 23:11 And it wasn’t to try and put you or me or anybody else in a box, because that’s not valuable to anybody. What it was trying to do was say, “I just approach money in this way, and I found that in doing that, that there was a couple of different spectrums. And in the book, and in some of the work I’ve done, and talking to your group, I talked extensively about that.

J. Christianson: 23:32 But there was idea of the difference between stewardship and ownership, so those two concepts were really important to this equation. How do you view money from those two perspectives? Stewardship would say, “The money’s ours. There’s a priority base to it. There’s something bigger than me associated with the money.” On the other end of that spectrum would be ownership. Ownership says, “It’s about me. It’s mine. I have control of it,” just like what ownership would say.

J. Christianson: 23:55 I call that sometimes the sandbox test, this idea that when we were kids and sandbox and the toys, are the toys ours, for all of us to share, or are they just mine?

J. Christianson: 24:06 The other spectrum that I find people on, and was part of this work, was this idea of abundance and scarcity, and is your mindset around money … Which end of that spectrum, or in between, is that? Abundance would say, “I have sufficiency. I have plenty. I have enough.” It’s what I call the fuel gauge test, the idea that the car fuel gauge says, “Full.” It’s not about the amount of money you have. You just have the sense that I have enough. And maybe you have more than enough, right? It’s beyond enoughness. I have so much sufficiency, and there are people that have that, but that’s a mindset, not about a dollar amount.

J. Christianson: 24:40 On the flip side of that is scarcity. Scarcity says, “I don’t have enough. It’s the zero-sum, winner-losers, got to get more. It’s not that my fuel tank is empty. It says, “I just need more.” That’s the client I was telling you earlier that said, “I got a financial balance sheet that’s rock-solid, and yet I just need more. I just need more,” and that’s a common response.

J. Christianson: 25:03 And so, that left me in this quadrant I’m telling you about. There’s three of those that are fear-based. One of those is around this idea of concern, kind of grounded in scarcity and ownership. There’s one that’s grounded in caution, that’s conflicting, because I have stewardship and I have scarcity, and so I’m conflicted. I have to justify what I do. I might even be guilty about what I do.

J. Christianson: 25:29 And there’s another one that is more of a sense of control, because I want self-sufficiency, and I need to keep my lifestyle the way it is, and that could start to feel like hoarding and pride and other stuff.
J. Christianson: 25:42 And then the last one, which is the more healthy of those responses, is this idea of contentment. “Can I have contentment as it relates to money, and hold it, and be calm and confident,” and guess what comes out of there is generosity>

J. Christianson: 25:56 So, I found that those were really useful, not in labeling somebody, but saying, “Gosh. If that’s my natural wiring, can I change that?” And I believe you can. I believe that if you’re conscious of that, even though that’s your natural wiring, and you’re aware of those feelings, or feelings that I have when I have money … And of course, our money history, as we talked about. That’s baked into this, that I might be able to take some actions periodically that might lead me to healthier decisions around money.

J. Christianson: 26:26 So, “Yes.” Is the answer to your question, a long-winded answer, which is, yeah. I do see some commonalities around people and that’s why I built that tool. And I would hope when people take it, that they wouldn’t go … And I’ve said a couple of times, “It’s not that John’s labeled me. No.”

J. Christianson: 26:43 When you go through the questions, and there’s 50 of them, you’ll go, “Oh, that’s an interesting question. You’re right. That’s an interesting question,” and I think it’ll start a dialog with you, your spouse, your partner, whatever, about, “Wow, I do respond to money that way, that’s not healthy for me,” or, “It is healthy for me. I’ve got a real healthy response in some areas to money, and that’s good to know, too. This isn’t all bad. I think there’s a part of this that’s United States trying to have the relationship with money be as healthy as it possibly can be.

B. Meric: 27:11 All right. Awesome. So, just to summarize your kind of guidelines on how to approach this whole thing, one is auditing yourself, what grade you’d give your life. And then after that, you know, actually doing the quantitative exercise, doing the numbers, what do you need to live the life that you live, or want to life? And that’s a more quantitative exercise.

B. Meric: 27:32 This idea of a money date, I think everyone on this conversation, who’s participating today, that’s something we should all do with our significant others, our friends, to actually just talk this out. Certainly not something I’ve done before, and I think sounds like a great exercise, and I’m just research on what’s your purpose, and all the questions you’ve posed.

B. Meric: 27:52 Before putting it up to the audience, I want to ask just one question that’s maybe more personal in nature, because I see the spectrum also, in terms of just like risk tolerance and it’s related to all of the things that you said. And I loved what you said about, you know, where a lot of times, your purpose and passion might lie where your risk is. That’s fascinating, because as human beings, we all want some comfort and security and predictability, but we also are craving for achieving our potential and pushing boundaries, and so forth, and there’s a bit of a paradox there.

B. Meric: 28:29 I grew up in a very entrepreneurial household. It was an absolute roller coaster, financially, from the moment I was born to the moment I went to college. I was constantly up and down, and I think that made me very comfortable with the highs and lows, right? But before I actually became a full-fledged entrepreneur and had built an organization myself, I was much quicker to encourage other people to just dive in and pursue their passion, and go for it.

B. Meric: 28:56 Now that I’ve been doing it for a few years, I’m slower to encourage people, because it’s truly incredibly turbulent. I went to Harvard Business School, and I went to school with some of the smartest people I’ve ever met, and what I find often is, you know, many have fantastic jobs that I assume pay very, very handsomely. At the same time, there’s a lot of people who are like, that comfort almost is what stops them from pursuing a lot of the passions, as well.

B. Meric: 29:27 I just wonder, you know, where the balance is. Do you just have these extremes of people who are like, very capable, but then the farther they get along in their career, the more uncomfortable it gets to really shake that foundation.

B. Meric: 29:41 And then are there just meant to be some people who are … They’re just risk-taking anyway? They’re willing to go all-in and [inaudible 00:29:49]. Just wondering how you navigate that in everyday conversations with people who aren’t necessarily your clients, but people who are really looking to take their lives to the next level.

J. Christianson: 29:59 Yeah. Risk tolerance, to me, is fascinating. I think it’s one of the secrets to this whole thing that a lot of people don’t realize. It’s not like the risk tolerance when you’re a financial advisor. “What’s my risk tolerance for investing?” Yes, that’s interesting, but where do I want to put the level of risk in my life that really would give me the kind of returns that I want to have? And the reality of it is, that money, as you become more successful, to your question, money insulates us. It not only insulates us, but it isolates us.

J. Christianson: 30:30 And so, we are further and further removed from people that understand what we’re going through. Money’s taboo, anyways. You know, we’ll talk about anything besides money. We’ll talk about death. We’ll talk about our taxes. We’ll talk about our sex life. But we won’t talk about money.

J. Christianson: 30:47 So, we don’t have anyone to talk to, so then there’s all these emotional and psychological and relational issues, and we don’t know what to do with them. And then it insulates us, because we don’t want what we have to change, and we move away from what really brought us joy in our life.

J. Christianson: 31:02 And I think it’s the same thing, the guy I told you about that was my client. He had wild financial success, but wasn’t experiencing the life that he wanted to lead. It reminds me of another guy that I was talking to, that sold his company. When I met him, it was three years after he’d sold the company. He had the brand new house. He had the fancy cars. He had his kids in the right schools, and he was depressed. And I said to him, “When was the last time you did anything that felt like risk?” And he said, “John, I can’t even remember the last time.” And isn’t that interesting that money, in a lot of ways, it becomes this cocoon, and if we’re not constantly challenging and pushing ourselves out to really make sure that the definition of success for our life is what we have, and it’s not just a big pile of money, because if we don’t define success …

J. Christianson: 31:59 Brene Brown says this, which I think is interesting. For those of you who don’t know her, she’s pretty famous, pretty big deal. She’s a big deal. But, she says the most important thing you can do in life is to find success, because if you don’t do it, society will do it for you. And what does society lead us to? Society leads us to the sports stars and the business professionals and the entrepreneurs, the people that are wildly successful financially.

J. Christianson: 32:20 But, if we pick money as the sole target, then we put all our energy focusing on hitting that, and we will lose finding fulfillment in the rest of our life. And so, it’s interesting to me that as the question I would leave with your group, and I do believe when I talk to people is, “What’s one risky step of faith you could take to move towards your ideal outcomes?” Just one. And if you don’t know what your ideal outcomes are, that’s a whole nother set of issues.

J. Christianson: 32:48 That’s a conversation I have with clients often, high-achieving couples. “It’s phenomenal that we’ve got all this success and all this time, but we don’t think about where we’re going.” And I ask them a really simple question and I’ll tell you what that is, and the question is, “Let’s pretend it’s 5 or 10 years from now, Beri, and you and I are sitting on this podcast, and you’re telling me how phenomenal your life’s going. What are the things that are going on that lead you to that conclusion? Who are you with? What are you doing? What’s so exciting about your life that you’re just lit up? And then write those things down. If something comes to your mind when I say that right now, whoever is listening, write them down.

J. Christianson: 33:27 And then go home and ask your spouse or your partner the exact same question. And like the values, put those up someplace where it really matters, and what I tell everybody is, where’s the place that matters most in the house? The fridge. Put them on the fridge. That’s where you put your greatest hopes and your fondest dreams, and then every day, when you get up to go grab that cup of coffee, and you get up in the morning, you go, “That’s what my life’s about. That’s the direction my life’s heading.”

J. Christianson: 33:53 And then, what’s one risky step of faith I can take towards that picture? Just one. I’m not saying you’ve got to go all the way, and I don’t think it’s be somebody or not. When you and I were talking last week, we talked about, you know, you have this ability to take these big steps of risk. Not everybody does. And that’s okay.

J. Christianson: 34:13 But what’s one step of faith that you could take, that anybody could take, that’s congruent with who they are, and maybe would push them just a little bit towards that place of risk and excitement, because I believe the reason why that matters is, that’s where living fully resides. Living fully resides out on that edge. It behooves us all to go explore and find where that is.

B. Meric: 34:38 I love that. So those are three excellent pieces of homeworks that John has assigned us. So, one is ask that question. What’s one step of risk that you can take? The next one is, think about 10 years from now. You’re describing your life, and it’s phenomenal to someone. What are the things you’re saying? And then the first one, you’d mentioned earlier in the call, is go on a money date, and actually talk about your relationship to money.

B. Meric: 35:03 So, amazing key takeaways there, and I hope everybody does that, maybe right after the call, while it’s fresh, and maybe organize the money dates. I don’t think you can just go on one.

B. Meric: 35:13 That was excellent, John. I really appreciate it.

B. Meric: 35:16 So, we’re going to dive into audience questions now. There is a Q&A box at the bottom. If you type in a question there, that’ll be awesome, and then I’m going to promote you to be a panelist, so that if you have video, we can see you, or otherwise, we can at least hear you.

B. Meric: 35:32 We have one question already. It’s from [Vernon 00:35:35]. So, Vernon, give me just a moment. I’m going to add you as a panelist here. Hey, Vernon.

Vernon: 35:53 Hi, Beri. Hi, John. How are you doing?

J. Christianson: 35:55 Hey, Vernon.
Vernon: 35:57 So, my question is really, when you find people, I guess, as you might say is, “Hey. You’ve done the math. You’ve run the numbers. You figured out, ‘Hey, this is exactly what I need to do to get to where we need to get to,'” and people still make the opposite [inaudible 00:36:14] chase the money to cars, the lifestyle, really, and then we decided, “Hey. I want to be happy,” and people continue to make those choices, and chase those things, or choose not to chase those things, what would be some advice that you can kind of get them to get past that?

J. Christianson: 36:33 So, what you’re saying is, is this somebody that you know, that you’re associated with, or in a relationship with? Is that-

Vernon: 36:41 I’m speaking of actually groups of people, like friends, family members, all of that.

J. Christianson: 36:45 So, they are chasing kind of traditional measures of success and they want to do something different? Or they don’t?

Vernon: 36:56 And that’s my thing. People say they want to do something different, but they don’t do those things that would make those changes.


B. Meric: 37:03 Self sabotage. It’s like they know what’s good for them, but they’re not doing it.

J. Christianson: 37:08 [crosstalk 00:37:08]. So, here’s a little secret that I’ve learned in my life, and that is, I can’t make somebody change. Somebody has to get to a place where the fear of staying where they are, or the pain of staying where they are, is greater than the fear of pain of change. Because otherwise, then it becomes my agenda for them, and I can only live my life, and I can only model what I believe living fully is doing for me, and I’m hoping that will inspire and motivate other people to do the same, and go, “Gosh. What’s going on with Christianson? He looks like he’s really digging life, and I want some of that.”

J. Christianson: 37:56 Because I think we all know that the cars and the houses, those are nice. There’s nothing wrong with those, but we all know where that leads. That isn’t going to bring the fulfillment that people want in their life. That’s why ultimately, they kind of come back to saying, “Gosh, I want a bigger definition,” and I guess what I’d say to them is, “Whenever you’re ready to do that, come talk to me. But, if you’re not ready, it’s just a fool’s game to kind of keep talking about it. You’re just not ready. And that’s okay. You’re just not at a place where you’re serious about wanting to experience the life that would really be more meaningful to you,” and I think that’s more common than not. I think that we can tend to get … It’s like boiling the frog. We can just kind of get in our routine, and hey, it’s good enough, and I think that’s my whole idea behind the book, was to maximize my return. The problem is, we’re running out of time.

J. Christianson: 38:48 When I came to see you guys in Miami, I talked about Blake Nordstrom, the guy who used to be the CEO of Nordstrom. I saw him at the University of Washington basketball game in early December. A month later, he’s gone. He died from cancer. No amount of money, power, influence, could change that, and I think we all are in that state of, you know, life’s short.

J. Christianson: 39:10 I don’t think anybody needs to prove that to somebody. It’s short. I can only control me. My response to you is, you can only control you, maybe through doing something yourself, and moving your own life that way, you can invite them into a different journey, but otherwise, it’s a tough one. That’s a tough one.

Vernon: 39:33 Thanks.

B. Meric: 39:33 Thank you so much, Vernon, and thank you, John. All right, we going to go over to [Baysa 00:39:37] now, who has a question.

B. Meric: 39:48 Hi, Baysa.

B. Meric: 39:57 Are you able to … Oh. Hello?

Baysa: 40:00 Hello. Sorry about that. Hi. This is a very informative session. I appreciate all of the information and tips that you have shared with us, but I had a question about like, what we can do to help maybe college students, maybe high school students, to kind of better define what they want to do with their lives.

Baysa: 40:22 Because I’ve met a lot of people that are in their 30s, and they wish they would’ve done something else in school. They wish they would’ve been an event planner, for example, my co-worker said.

Baysa: 40:34 So, how do we help people at that stage?

J. Christianson: 40:39 I think it’s really the same. The only difference is, they haven’t had enough life experience to be able to navigate. So, if you think about sailing. I’m not a big sailor, but you know, you point the boat at some destination, and the wind kicks in, and as you’re an adult, you kind of get a chance to learn how to navigate and keep reorienting yourself, so to speak.

J. Christianson: 41:02 And as a younger person, you don’t have that experience, and so all you can really do is to ask them some of the questions I’ve asked you, which is, what does interest you? Where do you think your skills and talents are? Have you tried to explore those, and be open to supporting that and encouraging that in a way that might bring more fulfillment? Have you thought about … and depending on where you are, if you’re the caregiver or parent or whatever, am I creating a mechanism where I’m modeling money actually is success? Am I modeling the exact thing that I’m trying to tell them … Not that that’s bad. It’s just life is bigger than that.

J. Christianson: 41:40 And so how am I modeling that? Well, there’s ways to do that. You can model that through generosity. It’s a great way to do that. Bring in other elements of life that will allow them to experience empathy and compassion and maybe be exposed to different things.

J. Christianson: 41:56 Our daughter, when she was growing up, we did that. We sent her on a trip that ultimately changed her life. She became a social worker largely because of this trip she went on, that expanded her horizon. And she was able then, to experience life differently.

J. Christianson: 42:10 It’s also the reason why, when I interviewed a whole bunch of wealth creators, one of the things they told me loud and clear was, we don’t need more stuff. We need more experiences. And so, connecting your money to experiences and the people you care most about, creates this wealth that you can’t take away. And maybe there’s opportunities to create experiences with your high school or college age student that expands their horizon. And in those moments, you say to them, “What do you want with your life? Where are you trying to go? What would you do if there was nothing at stake? What would you do? If Mom and Dad kind of gave you the carte blanche, what would you do?”

J. Christianson: 42:53 That’s an interesting question, and the answer often is, “I don’t know.” They need help, you know? Take them places to show them, “Here’s an option, here’s an option,” but give them the ability to experience that, and I think as parents, we forget that we are ultimately the models of that, and we’re the ones who are showing them this is what it looks like. This is what it looks like to live a more holistic life that’s grounded in things more than just money.

J. Christianson: 43:20 So, those are just a few things that come to my mind.

Baysa: 43:27 Thank you. Appreciate it.

B. Meric: 43:27 You’re welcome, Baysa, for the great question, and thank you, John for the answer. So, it sounds like, show the kids options, lead by example, and also, I would just add, buy them a copy of John’s book. I’m sure that will also help, so …

J. Christianson: 43:39 It was written for aspiring wealth creators. I wrote it intentionally, and I appreciate you bringing that up. At the very beginning of the book, I said, “This isn’t a book necessarily for people that have money. I would like to have a young person, or a college age, you know, somebody at Harvard, pick up this book and go, ‘I want to have a better definition,’ or ‘I want to experience life and learn from people ahead of me,’ and the book is for sure written for people like that.”

J. Christianson: 44:04 So, thank you for bringing that up.

B. Meric: 44:07 Awesome. Thank you very much. Now, we have a fascinating question from someone who didn’t type in their full name. I think it might be Tony Schuller? Tony, I’m going to promote you to panelist now, if you want to ask a question. All right, Tony.

Tony Schuller: 44:35 Hello. Can you guys hear me?

B. Meric: 44:36 Hi. Yes. We can hear you now.

Tony Schuller: 44:38 Hey. Yeah. That’s right. Sorry, I didn’t type my full name in, but yeah. This is Tony. Hey, how’s it going, and thank you so much for the insightful conversation thus far.

J. Christianson: 44:47 Sure.

Tony Schuller: 44:47 Yeah. No. I just had a question about, have you had an experience with either your personal parents, or people who have parents with sort of the mindset of scarcity with money? I personally deal with that. Just had a very recent conversation with them, and yeah. Would just love to hear your thoughts on that, and your experience with that.

J. Christianson: 45:09 How does that relationship around scarcity impact you when you’re talking to them? So, what’s the impact on you?

Tony Schuller: 45:17 I would say it’s … So, I don’t mind sharing this on the personal level. Basically, my family conversation structure has been heavily around, you know, whether it’s like, mortgage, or whatever, right? And even though I have been … Personally, I believe, that’s doing my part of supporting them financially, with the savings I have and all that, but there is this constant sense of it’s never enough until we solve the problem. But, it’s frustrating to me, because that is sort of ruining our relationship or ability to have a deeper connection than just basing everything off money, right? I have the personal experience of … I feel like it doesn’t matter how much I’m … whether 10X or 20X amount of money I send them is never going to bring me that special deeper connection that I want with them. So, that’s sort of my personal experience with that. Does that make sense?

J. Christianson: 46:19 Yeah. Totally. Totally. So, it’s impacting the relationship, it sounds like, pretty significantly for you, maybe not for them, but for you. And so, one of the things that come to my mind is this idea of just, have you had a conversation with them about it? Have you told them, and been vulnerable, and said, “Look. I want to share. I want to help. But it is taking away from my ability to be in a relationship with you because it isn’t ever enough.” I’m just curious if you’ve had that dialog with them yet.

Tony Schuller: 46:56 Yeah. I have. And I have been pretty upfront about it. It’s interesting you brought it up earlier, you know, you can’t really change people’s mindset, right, unless they change it themselves. I have definitely brought that up, in terms of like, “Hey. I do believe our relationship deserves better than this, right?” And they kind of like, “Yeah. Yeah. We get it, but the mortgage now,” you know, right? So, that’s sort of my experience thus far.

J. Christianson: 47:28 Well, one of the other things that I didn’t talk about, and I think is valid for a lot of people is, do we need to forgive somebody as it relates to money? Is there a money forgiveness that needs to happen? You’re right. Parents, a lot of times if they’re older parents, you know, they’re probably not going to change. They may or may not get where you’re coming from, and what kind of life you want to lead, so obviously, your choices are, “I’m going to stop doing it,” which might be really detrimental to the relationship.

J. Christianson: 47:59 But the other thing might be, “Should I forgive them for the money past that they have?” There’s power in doing that, because sometimes when we hold on to this anxiety or frustration or anger, as it relates to money … Because money has hurt a lot of people in their lives, and it’s hurt relationships, and it could just be toxic. And so, is there an opportunity for you to maybe just forgive them, free them of their past, which is, they are the way they are.

J. Christianson: 48:29 The other thing might be just to ask them, “How’d you get this way? What was their upbringing? What led you to being the way you are?” And is there something in that story that you’d be able to kind of allow yourself to let go of the … Maybe just appreciate where they are and what’s happened that led them to this?

J. Christianson: 48:50 Just a couple of ideas. I don’t know if that helps.

Tony Schuller: 48:53 Yeah. No. Definitely appreciate that, and yeah. I’ll definitely have that … I love the idea of connecting with them to kind of figure out what led them to that point. I have a fairly clear understanding of that, but I do believe having that conversation would help. Yeah, and I agree, you know, this mindset of forgiveness, right, I’ve definitely been working on that. I don’t want to dive too much into it, but appreciate the conversation.

J. Christianson: 49:22 That’s a great question. That’s a great question.

B. Meric: 49:26 Thank you, Tony. Thank you, John. Not just our parents, but also sometimes our in-laws that also have to have that conversation with together, so very, very [crosstalk 00:49:36].

J. Christianson: 49:35 That’s right.

B. Meric: 49:37 For me, growing up, I know that my father’s father was very, very frugal, so that caused my father to be much more like, grab life by the horns and just take the risks. And then my grandfather on my mom’s side would always think that we don’t pay any attention to how much money we spend. So, it was just like a constant conflict from both sides of the family-

J. Christianson: 50:02 Yeah. Same.

B. Meric: 50:04 And the grandkids are left with trying to resolve that together. So, we’ve got only a few minutes left. We have time for one more very quick question. So, we have [Pierre 00:52:18], who asked an interesting question. So, Pierre, I’m promoting you to panelist.

B. Meric: 50:27 All right, Pierre.

Pierre: 50:29 So, yes.

B. Meric: 50:31 Do you want to like, bring your screen down a little bit, so we can see you?

Pierre: 50:35 Okay.

B. Meric: 50:37 Okay. We see you. Go ahead.

Pierre: 50:39 [crosstalk 00:50:39]. Can you see me now?

B. Meric: 50:40 Yep.

Pierre: 50:41 Okay. I want to thank you for enlightening talk. So, in the age of information overload, money is a quantifiable object. Happiness is not. Both are intrinsic values, which we don’t really talk often about, because there’s no way to measure them, except from [inaudible 00:51:05]. That being said, it’s now our responsibility to be able to have a certain mindset to provide future generations. Not only should you be happy, personally, but you can also go for the pursuit of money to make you fulfilled. And that way, you can have a better enjoyment of life.

Pierre: 51:29 So, what I had in mind, and as you clearly stated, the schools don’t teach those. They only teach you business school. How can you be aggressive, competitive, you know, fighting for this and that, and so forth. At the end of the day, every penny you gain, you have, is for you to really be happy and enjoy it and so forth.

Pierre: 51:57 I mean, your talk is really interesting. My question at this point, what can we do … Any idea would be great … to really empower future generations, so that they can embrace what you talked about.

J. Christianson: 52:16 Well, I think it really starts with each of us individually, and I share that all that I can control is me, and all that you can control is you. So, my hope is that we can inspire future generations to look at their life more holistically, and ask the question I’m asking you, “What’s the money for?”

J. Christianson: 52:37 Money’s just a … It’s not the end, it’s a means. Money is a means to achieving things that are important to us. It’s super important. It’s super valuable. Nobody’s disputing that. But what’s the money for? And that’s a really important question, and I think that as a society, it’s time for us to start asking more of those questions and talking about our life differently.

J. Christianson: 53:00 I think it’s the reason why some of these courses at the universities are so popular. The one at Yale comes to mind, you know, this idea of happiness. We’ve got ourselves in a place of chasing these holistic definitions of success that really aren’t bringing fulfillment, and that’s why the kids can’t get enough of it in the college classes.

J. Christianson: 53:18 So, I think as adults, we’re probably not a whole lot different. We just get what happens as we get older, and then we decide, “Ah, I don’t have enough time, you know, I’m running out of runway,” and that’s just another lie. So, for me, I would look at those seven stocks in your life portfolio, a good takeaway for you. Look at the seven stocks in the life portfolio, and I put an assessment in my book. One of the assessments is, “How would you grade each of those stocks right now, and why, and what’s one thing you might do to change that grade?”

J. Christianson: 53:50 That’s a great way, it’s a great compass for, “Am I fulfilled and content and peaceful? Do I have what I …” The Jewish faith calls shalom. “Do I have everything working the way I want it to work, in alignment with my life in a way that brings flourishing to my life?”

J. Christianson: 54:09 And that’s a great place to start, and I might encourage you to do that.
Pierre: 54:15 Thank you.

J. Christianson: 54:16 You’re welcome.

B. Meric: 54:17 All right. Thank you, Pierre, for the great question-

Pierre: 54:18 So, Beri, the next topic for you, is the next topic, is for happiness.

B. Meric: 54:25 That’s coming up. We’ve got Gretchen Rubin in June for a talk on happiness, so we will get there. Thank you, Pierre, for your question.

B. Meric: 54:34 John, we’re almost at 6:00, so before we wrap up, I wanted to ask you, just very specifically, you know, what’s one additional key takeaway, maybe you’d leave everybody who’s dialed in? And also, if you could share with us the best ways in which we can support you in your endeavors. You’ve been extremely generous with your time, and you’ve provided us with some great insights, so we’d love to hear your response to both of those before we wrap up.

Pierre: 55:01 Sure. We talked about risk as one of the secrets. The other secrets is generosity. Generosity equals joy. You’ve never met an unhappy generous person. It’s proven. It’s a study that’s proven. The studies show that you’re healthier, happier, and live longer, if you’re generous with your money and your life and the things you have, serving other people.

Pierre: 55:29 And so, it’s free dopamine, as I call it. It’s free. And so what is a way you can bring generosity into your life. For me, my calling has evolved into doing this kind of stuff, inspiring people to live bigger lives. That brings incredible joy to me. To the guy before who asked the question, you know, “How do we get there? Is it quantifiable?” Yeah. There’s one quantifiable way. Start being generous. Hang around generous people, because they’re super joyful and fulfilled, and you’ll learn what it looks like to be generous. So, that’s my tip.

Pierre: 56:01 The question I usually leave people with, and I’ve already said it earlier, is, and this is the takeaway question, “What’s one step of faith you can take towards your ideal future?” I would love each of your audience members to think about that today.

Pierre: 56:14 How you can support me, and thank you so much for asking. It’s been a treat to be on this call with you, Beri. You can go to jcchristianson.com, sign up for our living fully community, be part of the community, buy my book. I would love you to do that. All of the author proceeds are going to charity. This is about spreading the word.

Pierre: 56:34 If there’s any opportunities for me to help, assist, talk, would love any of those, but all that can be found at jcchristianson.com. I also have a podcast that’s called, The Wealth Confidant. All that’s also on the website, where I talk to successful wealth creators who are trying to transition … or not even transition. They’re trying to move meaningful wealth into a meaningful life. It’s imperfect, and so I’m intrigued with the journey, and what does it take, and I’m even interviewing you, in a little bit. Hopefully, we’re going to get that on the calendar.

Pierre: 57:09 Yeah. So, that’s another tool, an assessment tool, that I talked about earlier, are all there for the taking. So, please reach out to me on email, or on social media if I can be of help in any way.

B. Meric: 57:21 Awesome. Definitely will do. I love the comment you made about generosity, and I think … I mean, it all boils down to take more risks, like a bitmark. Get yourself uncomfortable and be generous. So, I think that generosity can even be reframed as, you know, don’t just focus on this something I remind myself and share with others, is it’s not just all about what you can take and what you can get. Actually, the free dopamine, as you call it, it’s all about what you can give, the impact you can make, and especially in business, if you’re really focused on that, that’s where you create value, because you really care about what are people actually wanting, and how can I best provide it for them.

B. Meric: 58:04 So, I think all the great business people that I respect and look up to, these are the people who place a tremendous amount of attention onto truly giving to people what they really want, and generosity is a great way to look at that.

B. Meric: 58:20 This was a fascinating conversation. John, I’m hoping that we get to list you in all of our other chapters, as well, in person. Would love the members to meet you, would love members to go through these exercises together with you. I think that would be incredibly special, and I want to thank everybody for dialing in today. I really appreciate it. This was our first, like I said.

B. Meric: 58:42 Coming up, as Pierre brought up, we do have a few more of these coming up. We’ve already scheduled them. They’ll be pretty much ever week. We’ve got Craig Hall coming up next week about how entrepreneurship can save America, and how America can save entrepreneurship.

B. Meric: 58:59 After that, we’ve got Julian Guthrie. She is author of Alpha Girls, Overcoming Adversity, Gretchen Rubin, Secrets to Happiness, and we’ve got John Rossman, from Amazon, talking to us about how to scale and grow the way that Amazon did.

B. Meric: 59:15 So, lots to look forward to. Encourage everybody to come. And most importantly, I want to say a huge thank you once again to John for making this so special today, and sending you a huge virtual applause on behalf of everybody who’s [crosstalk 00:59:29].

J. Christianson: 59:29 Thank you. Thank you. It’s been wonderful to be here and really appreciate it.

B. Meric: 59:33 All the best for now. Take care, everybody. Thank you, John.

J. Christianson: 59:36 See you later. Bye.